Problems when a domain isn't renewed

Originally Published 2003-08-28 13:56:45

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:55:39 -0700 (PDT)

From: "Johnny Fuery"

Subject: RE: mncabinet.com questions

To: "Lisa F

CC: "Stephen N



> 1) If the site is now being redirected to

> mnbuild.com, do we need to do

> anything else??



Well, it's not being redirected. Links directly to

mncabinet.com are simply going nowhere -- your browser

displays a "Page Not Found" error. The domain is

effectively dead.



> 2) Do we have to buy back the site from

> Slutnames.whatever or will the

> redirect stand? And do we know whether or not they

> actually "own" it or

> stole it.?



I'm pretty sure they own the lease to mncabinet.com

fair and square. Unethically, perhaps, but not

illegally.



If you actually want a redirect, i.e., typing in

"http://mncabinet.com" yields your site located at

mnbuild.com, then yes, control of the domain must be

reobtained from Smutnames.



Please note that much of the damage has been done,

however. The prominence of mncabinet in the google

search results went away when we asked google to

remove it from it's directory and cache (remember, it

was linking to the smutnames obcenities). I'm not sure

if you agree, but it seems to me that the largest

value of that domain was in it's prominence in the

google engine. Even if it were recovered, I'm

unfortunately not confident that the google placement

would return. It very well may, but it's difficult to

guarantee that behavior.



Let me know if there are more questions I can address.



Johnny



--- Lisa wrote:

> Johnny,

>

> Well, if nothing else you are very thourough. But i

> must admit - its so

> much info i get really really lost.

>

> I guess i should contact Verio and ask them what is

> this renewal for.

>

> But if you could answer two simple questions for me

> (without too much

> computer explanation for my pea brain):-)

>

> 1) If the site is now being redirected to

> mnbuild.com, do we need to do

> anything else??

>

> 2) Do we have to buy back the site from

> Slutnames.whatever or will the

> redirect stand? And do we know whether or not they

> actually "own" it or

> stole it.?

>

> Lisa

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Johnny Fuery [mailto:jfuery@yahoo.com]

> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:34 AM

> To: Lisa F

> Cc: Stephen N

> Subject: Re: FW: Account Renewal Confirmation

> mncabi, 50220

> mncabinet.com

>

>

> Lisa,

>

> Sorry for the delay in responding. My travel

> schedule

> prevented me from replying promptly. Note that you

> can

> always contact me via mobile phone in the event I

> fail

> to turn around email in a timely enough fashion.

>

> Verio is a hosting company. While they may handle

> domain registration issues as a value-added service,

> their primary business is selling server space,

> i.e.,

> resources on servers attached to the internet

> backbone.

>

> With this in mind, it's difficult to tell from the

> text below whether this is a bill for hosting

> service

> -- which would not have any effect on your domain

> registration -- or some sort of renewal fee

> associated

> specifically with the mncabinet.com domain. The

> reference to mncabinet (as opposed to mnbuild) may

> simply be an anachronism based on when the account

> was

> opened. Or, it may simply be that the server space

> isn't used for anything. Leasing server space from a

> company like Verio unfortunately does not

> necessarily

> mean that anything useful is actually being done

> with

> said space.

>

> If none of this makes sense, perhaps I can offer an

> analogy. Suppose you lease some commercial space in

> a

> downtown office building. You'd undoubtedly have to

> fill out a form and possibly pay a small fee to have

> your company name placed on the lobby directory

> (e.g.,

> Acme Company, Suite 123). To further exaggerate the

> metaphor, suppose you went ahead and paid for

> signage

> on the exterior of the building. This would

> definitely

> be an extra fee, probably billed from the owner(s)

> of

> the building on an annual basis. It's worth it,

> though, right? Instead of a full address, you could

> get away with referring to your location as "The

> Acme

> Building".

>

> Now, suppose you moved offices. You might still

> leave

> that signage up until the end of that year's annual

> billing cycle. This is akin to your domain

> registration. You're translating an internet address

> -- something like 212.204.192.76 -- into a mnemonic

> that is easier for us humans to remember --

> mncabinet.com. In my example, the Acme company

> changed

> their address from something like "100 West Santa

> Clara, San Jose, CA" to "The Acme Building".

>

> The metaphor continues. Even if the signage were

> removed and the office was no longer being used, you

> still might be locked into a long term lease and

> would

> thus have unused office space. Having this office

> space and continuing to pay for it would have little

> to do with your new office or the exterior signage.

> In

> a similar manner, the domain registration has little

> effect on your server space.

>

> In terms of next steps, it needs to be determined

> what

> exactly this bill is for. I suspect that this is NOT

> for domain registration renewal and is rather for

> server space. Here's why:

>

> + Domain registration is for a minimum of 1 year.

> This

> bill refers to a quarterly renewal.

> + Domain registration is inexpensive, starting at

> around $8 or $9 a year with a maximum price of ~$35,

> based on the vendor.

> + The dates show no correlation with the dates

> provided by the global domain registration database.

> + The global domain registration database doesn't

> typically have problems like this, i.e., it doesn't

> get hacked into by folks trying to steal domains.

> We'd

> definitely hear about it if it did. I also expect

> folks would go after higher profile targets were

> this

> the case. (Think high profile domains like

> "business.com", which sold for ~$7 million at the

> height of the dot.com hysteria)

> + I went out to Verio's site, and I think this is

> the

> service you're paying for:

> http://hosting.verio.com/index.php/dnr.html (Note

> that

> the "park your site" fee is not registration-related

> -- it's simply server space)

>

> I do have one question. Were you notified in any way

> that the mncabinet.com registration was expiring?

> Most

> domain registration companies (Network Solutions,

> Register.com, your ISP -- verio, perhaps, in your

> case) promise to notify you before the domain

> expires.

> This is in their best interest, since they're in the

> business of selling domain registration services

> (i.e., they have jumped through hoops to gain access

> to the global domain registration database and

> profit

> from that status) and want the follow on revenue. I

> would be extremely surprised if you were not

> notified.

> Email alerts are typically sent several times before

> the domain actually expires. These would have gone

> to

> the email address provided at the time of purchase.

> Perhaps an individual no longer working with you

> handled this transaction?

>

> If no notification was sent, you may have some

> recourse with the registration company. That's a

> tough

> battle, however. I'm sure there are a number of

> protections for the registar in the contract that

> was

> agreed to at purchase.

>

> At the very least, you probably do not need to

> continue buying server space from Verio. After

> verifying that my suppositions are correct, you can

> go

> ahead and cancel the service.

>

> Let me know how I can help further.

>

> Johnny Fuery

> 925.997.3878